Accessibility Ally

Corrie Melanson 0:00
Welcome to Accessibility Ally. It's a podcast featuring guests with a range of disabilities and social identities. They share provocative ideas and challenge allies to disrupt ableism and I'm your host, Corrie Melanson. Thanks for tuning in. In today's episode, we have a conversation with Terri Lynn and Don, both of whom work for Nova Scotia's Accessibility Directorate. They're responsible for implementing the work of Nova Scotia's Accessibility Act, which was passed in 2017. And one of the goals of the Act is for Nova Scotia to be accessible by 2030. So we look to the future. What does that mean? Who does it impact? And what can individuals do to contribute to the changes to ensure that Nova Scotia is accessible to all? All right, so I am thrilled today to have Terri Lynn Almeda, and Dawn Stegan, joining me from the Accessibility Directorate, which is under the Nova Scotia Department of Justice. So first, what I would love for both of you to do is just to introduce yourselves and any social identities that you feel comfortable sharing.

Dawn Stegan 1:28
Well, I'll get started! So thanks for having us here, today. This is my first podcast. I joined the Accessibility Directorate four and a half years ago. I got a phone call at the start of the pandemic from Gerry Post, the former Executive Director and Gerry was interested in retiring, and we had become very close colleagues in the work of the Accessibility Act. I was at Communities Culture, Tourism and Heritage. And, I was honored that he called to say, would you consider this opportunity. And then, of course, there was a process and I thought I was going for eight months, and never left. Love the work. Each day can be a little bit different. But really at the crux of it, it's the strategic leadership. So I work closely with our two directors, which would be Terri Lynn, doing programming services, and another Director who's leading policy and standards. We have a team of around 14-15 staff, some are permanent some are term. Some days, I'm kind of flying high in the sense that I'm working with strategic leadership and other Executive Directors across government to talk about how we work together and move things forward. Some days, I'm rolling up my sleeves and I'm answering questions that staff will have about how to advance their work, or make decisions on certain parts of our work. And then ultimately, all of our work is going through some phase of approval. So you'll often see me on a weekly basis, making those big submissions and presenting on those submissions, to get the approval, so that we can keep moving forward. In terms of who I am. I'm a middle aged woman with beautiful gray hair, and currently living on the North Shore of Nova Scotia; but I grew up in Cape Breton, and that's where my heart is.

So, Terri-Lynn?

Thanks Corrie. It's so nice to be here and meet you in person, after some time of knowing each other. I joined the Accessibility Directorate, five and a half years ago, I'm the Director of Programs and Services there. But, I started as Manager, and I've worked in the disability field, both in the nonprofit and government sector, for over 25-30 years. That gives you an indication of my age. So, without adding anything more.

Corrie Melanson 3:58
You also have beautiful gray hair!

Terri Lynn Almeda 4:01
Oh, I thought it was blonde, haha!

Corrie Melanson 4:02
You also have beautiful blonde hair! Haha!

Dawn Stegan 4:06
What's fascinating about my journey; Gerry Post also hired me, after a week on the job, I was in a car accident and had to call Gerry Post and say, I'm not going to be at work on Monday and I've had a few surgeries, and I'm doing well but now have some lasting physical impacts because of that. And and so that's a bit of a joke with Gerry and I about on the job training and developing some lived experience. So, you know, in my life, I've often had mental health challenges, and I would never have described myself as disabled before. And so just learning to better understand our own each individual journey and what that looks like for all of us. So I'm so happy to be here!

Corrie Melanson 4:56
Thank you! We are referencing in other podcasts that two out of five Nova Scotians have a disability, and that number continues to increase. And that at some point probably all of us in our lives will have a disability. So that idea of bringing that lived experience lens to the work is absolutely wonderful.

Dawn Stegan 5:16
One of the things, if I can jump in about the connection and share an old story, is a few weeks before I was going to begin, Jerry suggested that I meet the manager, Terri Lynn. And so we met at the public gardens, and I kept thinking that name sounds familiar. And so when I walked up to the bench, Terri Lynn was someone that I worked with when I was 18 years old. And we were both the young professionals, I guess, still in university or high school with the Canadian Red Cross and in Halifax, so it is one of those two degrees of separation stories for Nova Scotia. So we're so happy every day that we're working together on this important work.

Corrie Melanson 5:17
So Dawn, I'm curious, what does 'access by design' mean? So the Accessibility Directorate is leading really important work here in Nova Scotia. So if you can describe a little bit of what is happening in that work right now?

Dawn Stegan 6:17
Yeah, it's a great question to start off with, because when I think about the layers of our work and the policies, it's the thing that comes below the Accessibility Act. So 'access by design' is a phrase we use to describe the implementation strategy that will guide the implementation of the Accessibility Act. And the phrase is 'access by design 2030.' And it really is about a commitment of all partners, entities, people, communities, government departments, to working together to achieve accessibility and to make our province more inclusive for persons with disabilities. What I would also say is it really is a theme that has a number of categories under it; which include priority areas for standard development, and collaboration. Awareness and education is such an important part as well. Government leading by example, compliance, and enforcement. And then finally, evaluation and monitoring. So you know, it very much has become a guiding document for us and for others, on how we will achieve that goal of an accessible Nova Scotia.

And Terri Lynn, what is the role of the Nova Scotia government in this work 'accessibility by 2030?'

Well, the government of Nova Scotia has such a key role to play because, of course, it was the provincial government that passed the Accessibility Act in 2017; and so has that responsibility for implementing the Act. The Act also identified specific responsibilities for the government, including developing 'access by design,' that implementation strategy that Dawn referenced, establishing the Accessibility Advisory Board, a group of community members that provide advice to Minister, establishing the Accessibility Directorate. And we're the government division that leads the implementation of the Act, and also has responsibility to develop standards and prescribe those public sector bodies that have additional responsibilities related to accessibility. But we know that government can't do it alone, right? Accessibility is some culture change and societal change. And so everybody has a role to play. And so government's role is also a convener. It is a coordinator, it's a facilitator, and bringing together so many different partners to work on accessibility together.

Corrie Melanson 8:45
And I heard you reference these public sector bodies. So what are some examples of those public sector bodies?

Dawn Stegan 8:53
Well, they include municipalities and villages, post secondary institutions, regional libraries, Nova Scotia Health and the IWK. Also, the Nova Scotia Museum, the art gallery, the regional centers of education, the Nova Scotia Liquor Corporation, and I'm sure there's a few others that Dawn will think of that I'm forgetting.

I think you've hit on most of them. And there's like sort of a clustering of those Crown Corporations that are in there as well. But in total, there's 107 entities that are prescribed under our Act that have some specific obligations, which include having advisory committees, developing multi-year accessibility plans, as well as when the standards are enacted, the standards will apply to those entities.

Corrie Melanson 9:44
So this is kind of that government leading by example. Right? Is that sort of part of why this group of organizations or entities kind of are almost leading the way a bit in the province?

Dawn Stegan 9:56
Yeah, it's sort of the the rollout of Access By Design, and the Act is that the government of Nova Scotia will be prescribed first, we were the first to be required to have an Accessibility Plan. And actually, in 2022, we released our second Accessibility Plan where we have 28 departments and offices committing to action and commitments. And then prescribed public sector bodies are important because in the end, the decision on who gets prescribed really was about impact. And so really, you know, you think about regional libraries and villages and municipalities and some Crown Corporations; so many have an impact. And as Terri Lynn said, it's kind of all moving in a direction of progress and change. So it's great! We couldn't be doing this work without the prescribed public sector bodies. And, I think what's helpful is we learn from them. And then every month, we sort of create an opportunity where they can come together through a webinar and do some capacity building and learning together.

Corrie Melanson 11:04
So I'm going to go off script a little bit, ooh, scary. So imagine, I'm in my community, and it's like, 2029-2030, and I'm going to the library, and then I'm going down the road and going to the liquor store, and using some of these community services, and through these organizations, what might I notice? Or what might I experience that might be different from what I might experience today?

Dawn Stegan 11:38
There's a few things from a standards perspective. I'm going to take you back to 2018. So after the Act was passed, the Accessibility Directorate went around the province and through surveys, through big focus groups, and interviews, 1500 people were consulted. One of the main questions was, 'what barriers need to be removed, and in what order?' So that's where you have sort of the standards and the order of the standards, or regulations. And there are many pathways to accessibility. But we know it's important to have regulation, to provide very clear guidelines for what things need to be in the province to be accessible. And so there will be a standard for built environment. And that's the first that we've been working on since 2019. As well, we've been working on a standard for education, and then a standard for employment is well underway in terms of that process and work. There will be a standard for goods and services focused on customer service, a standard for information and communication and a standard for public transportation and transportation infrastructure. So under our act, we are required to address regulation in those six areas, and I'm really pleased to say that with the support of government, we are working on all six standards at this point in time, which is keeping us very busy.

Corrie Melanson 13:10
Yeah, so that 2030 date sort of means that those standards would become law?

Dawn Stegan 13:15
They would be enacted, and that's right, they would be law. People would have very clear guidelines. And so that's one way that Nova Scotians would experience 2029, they would be able to contact us, there would be education on the standards, we would be seeing change as a result of those standards, especially in those areas. But, back to that phrase, there's many pathways to accessibility. So I think that what Nova Scotian should also experience is some other shifts in attitudinal barriers, because we are, along with many, invested in that awareness and education piece so that people understand human rights, understand barriers understand disability. And so hopefully, in 2029-2030, it's about an inclusive province, where people who want to partake in education, in work, in play, and leisure, really feel supported and are able to do that. I would also say that, looking to those years, if a barrier is experienced, there's a way for that person to come to government, or come to their community, or to that organization and be able to give feedback and be heard, and an action be taken. And there would be a heightened understanding and resources available for that entity to make that change if there are barriers.

Corrie Melanson 14:52
And so what I hear you saying is it doesn't mean in 2030, all barriers disappear. Right? But there's areas that that will receive focus, like transportation, communication, built environment, and that there are organizations and entities that really have to enact those standards.

Dawn Stegan 15:12
That's right! And we don't sort of see a finish line here. And so, if I look to our goal of enacting the built environment standard in 2024, there'll be a year down the road where we'll want to assess that built environment standard to determine what else can we do to expand on that standard? We may find ourselves a few years from now saying, okay, these are the six barriers, are there others through the act review process, through what we've heard from Nova Scotians, that we need to actually look to a new area? What is a gap is that is not being addressed? And is regulation the right mechanism? Or, can we address it in a different way? So, along with any equity, inclusion, diversity work, it's an ongoing process and ongoing journey that involves all of us. Terri-Lynn, is there anything else? I don't mean to take over your job here, but do you have anything that you'd like to say?

I think you've covered it. So well done. And, you know, I like to say this work is not a light switch. And if it were, people with disabilities wouldn't have equitable services and equitable opportunities already. So the work will continue. You'll hear from other people in the podcast, I'm sure, talking about their own experiences, and the barriers that they have experienced. Each one of us is an individual. And so as barriers are identified, as technology advances, other barriers emerge. So the work will continue, and I'm hopeful, and see the opportunity for real change. And that can make a difference in people's lives.

Corrie Melanson 16:59
It is exciting that Nova Scotia is a bit of a leader in this right? So we were the third province to enact legislation, and the federal government is now aiming to be accessible by 2040. But it's, I think, it's exciting. As you know, Ontario is quite far ahead. They were the first province but it does feel like Nova Scotia is taking a lead, kind of nationally with this, I think.

Dawn Stegan 17:27
We were able to learn a lot from the other provinces that were ahead of us, Manitoba and Ontario. And of course, it was before I joined the Directorate, but the amazing work that the Bill 59 Alliance did, along with government, in kind of co- creating the Accessibility Act, I think that made a big difference. What we have in the Act is very clear direction that the work we do is collaborative, with persons with disabilities involved with our policy work, with our program work. We get great advice from the Accessibility Advisory Board. But, we are this sort of, blue nose or province, where we're a small but mighty province, and it's easy to meet everybody, get around, have conversation and build those partnerships. And so we've been well received as we go into other departments and when we go into community to talk about the art of the possibility and how we can move the work forward together.

It's such a shift too, and Nova Scotia has really played a key role in this. I mentioned earlier that I've worked in the disability field for a number of years. And Nova Scotia made an intentional decision to put the accessibility work in the Department of Justice, because it's about human rights. We're not talking about being kind to people with disabilities, now that we shouldn't, because let's be kind to everybody, right? We're not talking about providing services to people, although yes, services need to be provided to people with disabilities and to all Nova Scotians when they need to have services. We're talking about human rights and equitable treatment. And so being in the Department of Justice, it's really grounded in that area. For Nova Scotia, we're the only province in Canada that has done that. Everyone else, it's in that social services, community services portfolio. So kudos, it's good for us to take pride in it.

Corrie Melanson 19:29
Yeah. Absolutely! And what I hear you saying too, I know it's one of the guiding principles of your work, is nothing about us without us. And my understanding, too, is that this was the first piece of legislation in Nova Scotia that was co created with community, which also is something I think to be really proud of, in terms of the work that you're doing.

Dawn Stegan 19:54
That's right! And one of the things that is a part of the the Act, and it was posted in May publicly, is the Act Review Report. And I, if I could just take a minute to speak to this. And it really is about a mechanism to hear from Nova Scotians through an independent review of how are we doing. So we're required, under our Act, after the first year - it's four years after it's enacted and then every five years after that - for the Act to be reviewed. And the review includes the standard development process, that Access By Design strategy that we talked about earlier, and it can also include the review of the board and the Directorate. So there are layers and elements in the act. So Dr. Katie Aubrecht from St. Francis Xavier University, conducted that review and submitted their report to the Minister of Justice in May. And that's available on our website. And we've been working across departments on a response to that report. And, you know, it's just one mechanism along with others, where we can receive feedback on a regular basis from community from disability partnerships, and then how do we create that opportunity to engage and make our work more available and create awareness for our work. I may use this as a plug to for Terri Lynn, to talk about the Disability Partnership Initiative that we have underway, if that's all right.

Corrie Melanson 21:27
I love that you're leading this, I don't neet to be here anymore!

Dawn Stegan 21:36
As I mentioned before, government can't do this alone. So we have been really intentional in developing and supporting partnerships across the province and across sectors. And it goes back to that foundational way of how the act was developed. And even before Bill 59, and the code development of the Act, there were so many consultations that engage so many community groups and organizations and individuals. So that disability partnership, in some ways is a continuation of that. So we have provided grant funding to Easter Seals, who is supporting the development of a disability partnership of disability community organizations. It's really important to have a space for community organizations to come together to share information. There's so much good work that's happening in the disability community sector. And then government also needs a place to connect with organizations. And so we've been spending the last number of months putting together a terms of reference, there's a coordinator that's now been hired, because it's hard to do things off the side of your desk. And Easter Seals, and Autism Nova Scotia, and NSLEO and a number of other organizations have been supporting this. And now we're at that stage of bringing organizations together and saying, 'how can we support you to do your work?' And, 'how can we support capacity building, across the sector and improve communications with government?'

Corrie Melanson 23:02
So great, that sort of sense of community building and community co creation is really built in. That's what I'm hearing, that it's really built into the structure of how you're doing your work. So Terri Lynn, why should Nova Scotians care? Why should they pay attention to this work that's unfolding?

Dawn Stegan 23:23
Well, I'm a great example. I like to think that but disability impacts everyone. Whether it's you yourself, or you said two in five Nova Scotians, that's 30% of Nova Scotians with a disability, almost two in five. Dawn and I were talking earlier about how our two degrees of separation of knowing each other. Almost everybody knows someone who has a disability, whether you know that or not. And so if you think 40% of the population has a disability, and then you consider your family and your friends even in this room right now, we've got three people, there's a few people outside in the office. And so when we you look around you think, okay, how many collectively? And so our research shows that 90% of Nova Scotians interact regularly with someone with a disability. The other thing is that, why should we care? It's because people with disabilities are part of community. And so whether you're a business, you're a municipality, you run a nonprofit organization, maybe you have a yoga studio, maybe you're running the grocery store; you're providing services to your customers, your community, and people with disabilities are part of your community, or client group. And so don't you want to learn how to make it accessible for those people that are participating in your programs or People need to buy your services or receive your services. I think it's a target population you might not want to lose given that it's 40% of the population.

Corrie Melanson 25:00
Yeah, absolutely! And so in this work done, the The Act has been in place since 2017. You've both been four and five years in this work. What have been some of the highlights of this work to date?

Dawn Stegan 25:17
Being in the policy work? I'll start there. But really I want to quickly get to what's happening in community because that's kind of where the energy and the excitement is along with what we do every day, I guess. But behind the scenes, you know, we've the Act review, we've mentioned that it was a big thing for us to get that underway and to ensure that Dr. Aubrecht was supported to do their work. The fact that all six standards are at various forms of development is a big highlight for us and so important! Back in, I guess, the start of 2023, we rolled out 'Access Includes Everyone' the awareness campaign that includes a number of commercials and social media and digital, and a great website that we're using to make resources and tools; sort of a resource hub for Nova Scotians, for subscribed public sector bodies. The fact that the government of Nova Scotia has that second Accessibility Plan, and includes so many departments. The first plan, which was due in 2018, involves eight departments. So to have all departments and offices involved is huge, and a significant kind of accomplishment. Also, when I think about community, we get success stories every day. You know, we also hear barriers every day you know, we have municipalities that have developed accessibility plans and we're seeing what they're doing with beaches and with walkways or with boardwalks, with Mobi-Mats, with equipment loan programs, with Hippocampe, with accessible campgrounds, like all of that kind of stuff happening in community, and in various kind of accessible playgrounds. So it's sort of sort of a variety of things. Some, that's somewhat possible because of back a few years ago, government upped its funding support for the Community Accessibility Grant Program, and launched the Business Accessibility Grant Program. So you know, that's made a difference. The fact that you see American Sign Language and CART being used more frequently, for press releases, and for events, it is important to ensure that everybody is able to interact.

Corrie Melanson 27:40
Maybe, back up for a minute and tell us what is CART? I'm not sure that's a term most people would know. So my understanding is it's closed captioning, right? So that if there was a video...

Dawn Stegan 27:54
Yes and the RT is real time.

Communication, Access, Real, Time

Corrie Melanson 28:00
Communication, Access, Real, Time. I don't think I knew that.

Dawn Stegan 28:04
You can sort of set it up sometimes in your own computer or on Teams or Zoom, or you if you're watching a movie, you can do it and it's also about hiring a company to come in and to capture that sort of transcript so that everybody can follow along, you know, and see the words, but also, then they have the American Sign Language happening. And so the fact that, again, community and government of Nova Scotia is using various communication formats. And there's mechanisms in place that if alternative format is needed for communication information that made available. The other thing that we're seeing is with the Office of Addictions and Mental Health, where there's a 1 800 or toll free number that's available to offer peer support for Nova Scotians, with mild mental health and substance abuse concerns. This all connects into sort of the work that we're doing as well and is so important, is the support there.

Dawn, if we're talking about a toll free number, let's give it to folks because there could be people listening today that would want to get help with mental health or substance abuse concerns. It's 1-800-307-1686.

Corrie Melanson 29:16
Yeah, and often too, people don't think about mental health or substance use as a disability. Right? So again, as you talked about, changing some of the mindsets, some of the education and awareness even about how you define disability and how you define accessibility, those shifts are ones that will really make a big difference for sure.

Dawn Stegan 29:45
There are so many examples. Some of the system examples are actually seeing organizations like municipalities and the post secondary institutions hiring Accessibility Officers or Accessibility Coordinators. Because if you're willing to invest in the staffing, then you're paying attention to it. You have staff dedicated again, who aren't doing it off the side of their desk, it's their full time job. So, there's a recognition of the value of accessibility. Another great example is what you're doing today. Again, it's not government leading everything. Accessibility is being picked up and talked about in community circles in the private sector. You're hosting this podcast, and we get to come in and participate. That's awesome! It's awesome that you're facilitating this conversation. So I see so many successes around the province.

I would echo that. And, again, getting back to Peggy's Cove, for example. There's something that's significant and really a beacon for accessibility in the built environment. A couple of years ago, the chair of the Accessibility Advisory Board, Rosalind Penfound, and I attended the Mobility Cup down in North Sydney. So that is an international sailing event for persons with disabilities. And growing up in industrial Cape Breton, all I kept thinking as I watched this amazing event and these volunteers deliver a fully accessible five day experience, is if North Sydney can do it, anybody can do it, right? And it was just amazing! So you can have the bigs like the Peggy's Cove, and the little communities like North Sydney delivering on an amazing event. So everything counts. And, you know, going back to kind of just here in Halifax accessible on demand taxi service, you know, another great initiative at the local level.

Corrie Melanson 31:48
Yeah, that's wonderful. And what we know, like you said Terri Lynn, is you can't flip the light switch and have everything happen all at once. But, these changes, whether they be in smaller communities or whether they are more structural or at the government level, is that all of those small changes make a big difference for folks.

Dawn Stegan 32:10
It really takes us back to what is Access By Design. It is more than the implementation strategy. It is that theme of working intentionally. It's making Accessibility By Design thinking ahead, planning ahead to consider what are the barriers that people with disabilities might be experiencing? And how do we address that in the work that we're doing? Every day there's a new plan or a new program or a new initiative, whether it's a community organization or a business startup or something, and are people thinking about people with disabilities from the beginning? That's ultimately what we hope. And I think for a more inclusive, diverse, province, we're hoping that as people develop a business or an organization, or a service, or a new program, they're thinking, what are the needs of Nova Scotians? And how can we meet those in an inclusive way?

Corrie Melanson 33:05
Absolutely! And sometimes I do find with diversity, inclusion, belonging, initiatives that sometimes the A - accessibility is sort of left off or, missed. And so I think a lot of this work is knowing that it's grounded in human rights, that it is grounded more in that broader sense of equity, it's important to make sure that it is centered in in equity and inclusion initiatives.

Dawn Stegan 33:33
Exactly, and there is the language around equity, diversity and inclusion in the provincial government. We've actually intentionally added on that A, so the work is often recognized as EDIA work, equity, diversity, inclusion and accessibility, even though it's inherently a part of equity, diversity and inclusion. So, again, foundationally it's part of that, but it can be overlooked. So let's add on that A, and be intentional about that.

Corrie Melanson 34:03
Yeah. So you've both shared some really great examples of some of the highlights some of the successes, but I imagine in this work, there's also challenges there's also things that might be a bit of a bumpy road. So just what are some of the things that have come up in in this work in terms of challenges?

Dawn Stegan 34:26
I would say that again, our day to day work involves the commitment to develop standards. It's a highly collaborative process that takes time, and we want it to go faster. And and we're trying to figure out ways to evaluate the process, streamline the process. And I think, you know, we've learned a lot from the first two standards. So one of the challenges has been, how do we get all of the six going at the same time? And, once we've achieved that, go faster and accelerate. One way that we're achieving that now is really defining the scope so that we don't have sort of an 18 Wheeler sitting out in front of us and wondering, what do we do with that? And so working with the board, and the standard development committees to have that scope, have very clear timelines, as well as to look to the work of Manitoba, Ontario, the federal government. And not to say that we're going to buy it off the shelf, we want to work for Nova Scotia, but we're using their great work as a model which will help us move faster! So that's been sort of one of the challenges; how we deliver on those timelines. But, I really feel confident about where we're at with each standard, and that they're all at play. I also think that another one for us is the culture shift that needs to take place. We've got our sneakers on here, and we've got our energy here for the long game. And, it's going to be something that, I think Terri Lynn when you joined the Directorate, we were able to tap into some great work that the Rick Hansen Foundation did on awareness. Now we have our own awareness campaign, we're having great conversations across government and in community about how they use the campaign, but to really put as much energy and focus on awareness and education as we do with standards development. Because that really is going to be important to us, as we garner support for the change in the progress, the transformation that has to happen in this province.

It really is to support that challenge about what each of us can do to help make Nova Scotia more accessible for people with disabilities for Nova Scotians with disabilities. And whether it's, you know, shoveling your sidewalk on a snowy day, paying attention to to the weather, or making your communication more plain language, so it's more accessible, there are things each of us can do that can contribute to making the province more accessible.

Corrie Melanson 37:16
Yeah and that some of those things, they don't take a lot of money, and they don't take necessarily a lot of effort, but maybe a little intention, and maybe a little bit of that proactive design or planning ahead of time. So yeah, I guess, Terri Lynn, I'd like to ask you, what keeps you going in this work? So so many successes, you know, a few challenges along the way, but what keeps you going?

Dawn Stegan 37:41
It's because of the people! We know, we're making a difference. We know we're working collaboratively. I've worked in government for a number of years, and this is the most collaborative, coordinated group that I've worked with. And I see the opportunity for such significant change that's meaningful for people with disabilities. And the impact that it can have!

Corrie Melanson 38:04
And Dawn, what gives you hope for an accessible future, what what keeps you going in this work?

Dawn Stegan 38:11
I think it's the the momentum and the energy that we see. And you know, I really enjoy being able to get out around the province, because that's where I get my energy; It is when we're in community talking to people, whether they be the prescribed public sector bodies, or Nova Scotians with disabilities. But, I think that it's the art of the possibility and that sort of what keeps me going; that we're a part of something that is an opportunity for change to happen in our generation. To be part of something that is going to make a big difference. I also see, I think the hope is that I see this energy around equity, diversity and inclusion. And there's opportunities through these priorities within our government work around health care, and around addictions and mental health and around community services and the remedy that we can really kind of tap into and take our work to go further, you know, to a further point. And so I just see the momentum.

Corrie Melanson 39:12
So thank you both for joining me today. And just really want to thank you, Terri Lynn and Dawn for coming here and sharing. Certainly the work that you do, but also, you know, you as people and sort of your motivations, your hopes, and you're really what keeps us in this work, and working so hard. So thank you!

Dawn Stegan 39:38
Thank you, Corrie. You're contributing to it!

Yeah. Thanks so much!